tWR Interviews: Fixed Form Poetry

Hello everyone, and welcome to our "tWR Interviews", where we interview experienced writers of our community about the art of writing! 
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For this round we've interviewed some of our community's best fixed form poets: Parsat, Vigilo, HaveTales-WillTell, williamszm and kiwi-damnation. 

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If you want to get some more educational reading, here are the other interviews we've released so far:

• On Writing
• Prose and Poetry Basics
• To Rhyme Or Not To Rhyme?
• Description and Vocabulary in Prose
• Characters, Imagery and Metaphors
• Vocabulary, Narrative Voice and POV
• Rhetoric Figures in Poetry
• Plot Building
• Poetic Prose
  

This interview focuses on poetry fixed forms.

Parsat, I really love the Chinese jueju. It's a four-line, five-character form with a delightfully distinctive tonal pattern. Not to mention it's devilish to write in too. Makes me admire the ancient Chinese masters even more.

Vigilo, The ghazal, right now, and for a long time. There's something about the combination of couplets and the repetition of one particular, significant word that's oddly gorgeous to me; plus, I've heard so many Hindi and Urdu ghazals that it's become a very musical and emotional form for me. 

HaveTales-WillTell, My tastes run the gamut, from sonnets to villanelles to haiku and senryu. But if you forced me to settle on one, I would have to choose the rondeau.

Its strictness poses a number of interesting challenges, from the standpoint of both a reader and an author: Did the poem keep its rhythm and flow throughout? Were all of the chosen rhymes effective? Did the refrain's meaning shift and evolve with each repetition? How well did the piece make coherent sense overall?

English is both an easy and a difficult language in which to rhyme. In general there's a greater variety of ending sounds available; but as a result, many of the more common words have surprisingly few matches. Fortunately, the large number of available synonyms — the result of English's longstanding and voracious appetite for other tongues — goes a long way towards making up for the shortfall.

williamszm, My favorite fixed form is probably a sonnet—at least I have written close to 50 of them! Not only are they terribly traditional, but i think that 14 lines is a good balance between too short and restrictive and still requiring concision and careful thought. I also like that there are a variety of sonnet types, and so you do have some ability to vary the rhyme scheme, especially in petrachan sonnets.

kiwi-damnation, The Trijan Refrain created by Jan Turner is one of my all-time favourites. It combines rhyme, meter and the changing of syllabic lengths to create a fast paced rhythmic masterpiece. Sometimes I write these unconsciously because they are so fun to write.
Another form that I love to write, which is a bit murderous, is the semi-cento. It’s a 50 line piece that features 50 different lines from 50 different poets and artists. It’s difficult but incredibly rewarding.



Parsat, I spent so long trying to figure out a piece people should read, but the question crushed me. So I'll just give a shout-out to some of the most skillful fixed form poets here:timeraider, sandzen, LaBruyere, williamszm, ThroneLiesFallow, and moyanII. Go out and have yourself a good time.

Vigilo, Speaking of ghazals, Agha Shahid Ali is the poet to aspire to when it comes to them; Tonight is his most well-known ghazal (for a good reason!) but Land is one of my favourites, though I can't pick my all-time favourite - everything he wrote pretty much turned to gold. 

HaveTales-WillTell, As far as published pieces go, the most famous rondeau is undoubtedly John McCrae's "In Flanders Fields", which just celebrated its centennial. But today I'd rather share a somewhat lesser-known one, Henry Austin Dobson's "In After Days", which touches on a theme near and dear to many deviants: "Will I be remembered for my accomplishments; and if so, how?"

In after days when grasses high
O'er-top the stone where I shall lie,
Though ill or well the world adjust
My slender claim to honour'd dust,
I shall not question nor reply.

I shall not see the morning sky;
I shall not hear the night-wind sigh;
I shall be mute, as all men must
In after days!

But yet, now living, fain would I
That some one then should testify,
Saying — 'He held his pen in trust
To Art, not serving shame or lust.'
Will none? — Then let my memory die
In after days!

williamszm, Most of my favorite poems are fixed-form, making it hard to choose just one! So I hope you don’t mind if I cheat and pick three of my favorite sonnets, to limit it somewhat. My fav sonnets are:

Christina Rossetti’s “Rest”
Algernon Swinburne’s “Cor Cordium”
Percy Shelley’s “England in 1819”

kiwi-damnation, When All Our Hairs are Gray by Parsat. It is an example of a variation of the cento where people use one line each from several pieces of art of one poet or musician. It was for my May Mixup Madness competition and not only was it perfectly executed, it was in sonnet form and a tribute to another great writer, LaBruyere.



Parsat, I think the fear about fixed form primarily lies in the learning curve, or rather, the fact that poetry has any learning curve at all. It's clear to us that all the other arts—visual art, music, dance, culinary art—have a learning curve, and that a lot of practice has to be put into them to even achieve competency. So why doesn't poetry have that reputation? The formation, understanding, and breakthrough of poetic form constitutes the learning curve of poetry. For those who understand this, their words are poetry. For those who do not, their words are merely glorified prose.

I know that may sound harsh and intimidating, but really, there's a simple way to overcome a learning curve, and that is simply to learn. Practice. Study fixed forms and why they are constructed the way they are, and where and how to use them. Read lots. Write lots. You'll churn out tons of middling verse, sure, but even diamonds are found and formed in seams of coal. 

Vigilo, I can see why it would be scary, but I do think there is a flip-side to that, one that people might want to consider, in that the lack of restrictions in free-verse can at times be equally, if not more, scary and difficult to overcome. I think people forget that you have to practice free verse as much as you do fixed verse to improve; it's just free verse is less obviously challenging.

Anyway, advice. I'm going back to my poem-as-a-house analogy. If your poem is a free verse poem, you're building and furnishing the house until you get a house that's comfortable for you. If your poem is a fixed verse poem, however, it's more like moving into a place that's already built - the house is already there for you, and you do the furnishing to make what's already there more comfortable for you. 

So, you should get comfortable with the idea of fixed form before you start. I would highly, highly recommend reading fixed form poetry and finding the poetry you like - view some houses that are already out there. Imitation is not a bad way to start. 

That said, here are some problems that you might encounter, and some potential solutions that might help, if you'll pardon the puns, fix your fixed form poetry fix. 

1. You can't rhyme.
That's totally understandable. Rhyming is hard. I'm still proud of a few rhymes I've done in previous poems, some of which I wrote years ago, because rhyming is really hard. It's also why I think fixed form poetry is a fantastic choice with which to practice your rhyming skills. (Rhyme is a fantastic device for any poem.)

Firstly - importantly - remember that fixed form poetry does not automatically equate perfect / general rhymes only, though those can be used fantastically as well. Half rhymes, weak rhymes, near rhymes, semirhymes, forced rhymes - these are all your friends, and can really shake up the tone of your poem. 

So. Read fixed form poetry that rhymes. Write fixed form poetry that rhymes: it doesn't matter how bad the rhymes are to begin with, write it anyway. The only way left to go is up. Check out sites like RhymeZone or B-Rhymes for help with rhymes; they're fantastic. Oh, and this: The Reason for Rhyme Workshop .

2. You don't know how to start.
Yeah, okay, so you know what fixed form poetry is like, but how do you start writing one? How do you start any poem? Do the same thing here. 

No, I'm sorry, that's not very helpful, is it. I do mean it, though, because this really just depends on how you write out your poem normally, (do you start from the beginning? do you start knowing what you're writing about? do you just start with a really good line that you want to build a poem around? etc) and it's difficult for me to tell you how to start, since I don't know any of that.

Still, I'll give it a shot, but take it with a grain of salt. Simply put, know the fixed form you want to try. Write down the structure in a way you understand. Start with something - a line, a stanza, what have you - and go from there. Like with free verse, you don't have to start with the beginning.

3. It sounds forced / it feels unnecessary.
Finally (at last, you think), I don't want to give the impression that a fixed form poem is like a "fill in the blanks" sort of, I don't know, Mad Lib poem, because it's not, and approaching it that way will lead to lines that don't do anything for your poem, which is not something you want, ever. 

The main thing is not to forget the content of your poem for the form. Your form makes the poem, but it isn't the poem. It can't speak for itself. There has to be a collaboration of form with content.

HaveTales-WillTell, First and foremost, and as counter-intuitive as it sounds, having a set of restrictions is one of the best ways to spark creativity. No matter how cold or wet the air, a raindrop or snowflake cannot form without a speck of dust to be the seed.

Second, experimentation takes you out of your comfort zone, and encourages you to bypass obstacles you may not have even realized were there. You can't afford to be too wordy when every word counts, for example; nor can you constantly ignore good grammar in the name of poetic license.

Third and last, wordplay is fun. Rhyming is fun; learning new words is fun; counting syllables is fun; sticking to a theme is fun. Granted, it's more fun when everything seems to work, but even that is part of the challenge.

williamszm, Well, I think all writing restricts our thoughts in some way, fixed form just more than most. I would suggest just try it! Even if the end result doesn’t turn out well, writing with different rules can help you see new solutions to things, and new ideas and styles to apply to your writing. For instance, many fixed forms restrict length, so they can really force you to be concise.

kiwi-damnation, I find that writing down the rhyme or refrain scheme in a word document is helpful so you can easily see what parameters are involved. I also do this with syllabic lengths. For example, the Trijan Refrain is:

8 a
6 b
8 a
6 b
8 c
8 c
4 D 
4 D
8 c

Where D = the first 4 syllables of c repeated. Lower case letters are basic rhymes, capitals are refrains (repeated sentences) and the numbers are the syllabic counts for each line. The Trijan Refrain is three stanzas long.
Once I have this structure, I can fill in the blanks. It helps tremendously when you are working with huge refrain schemes like the sestina.



Parsat, All of poetry is written in form. It's just that some forms are simply codified and put together because they have certain aesthetic qualities, whether visual and/or auditory. Personally I'm astounded how the different components of a form (e.g. length, meter, rhyme) combine to create an intrinsic effect to a poem. That is easily my favorite part of writing, reading, and studying fixed forms.

That's not to say that all forms are created equal though. Some forms are more arbitrarily constructed than others, or even downright restrictive. Other forms are not equipped to deal well with certain moods or topics. Admittedly these make fixed forms challenging and sometimes a bit of a headache to write, but you take the good with the difficult.

Vigilo, I'm going to start with the worst and end with the best. The worst is that sometimes I'll have something (like a line or a phrase) which, no matter what I do, just will not fit in the house, no matter how much I try to push it through the door. 

The best thing is that I get to work and experiment with a pre-existing structure. All I have to do is furnish the house and maybe make a few changes here and there as needed, but the house is already built.

HaveTales-WillTell, A good fixed-form piece feels like a song (or in the case of haiku, a profound observation). A great one makes the form itself invisible.

But done poorly, all the structure does is wave its arms and shout too loud. Some ideas may need either more or less room than a given form provides; few things are as hard to enjoy as a Frankenstein poem, a patchwork quilt of splicing, stuffing and stitching. And sometimes, free form poetry lets you present your thoughts in the way they demand to be presented.

williamszm, The best thing for me is the repetition and inherent structure fixed form poetry gives to your work. I like structure in poems, partly because I enjoy memorizing them and structures make that easier. I think it’s cool when poems can so easily exist not just on the page but also in people’s minds, like so many nursery rhymes or other famous poetry does.
The worst is probably how easily bad fixed-form poetry stands out. Freer poetry can obviously also be terrible, but nothing (to me at least) is as obviously bad and painful to read as a poorly executed fixed form poem. It makes rereading some of my own early poetry very excruciating!

kiwi-damnation, The best is being able to accomplish something momentous, and when I host DFC form challenges (ProjectDFC ) it is the feeling of being part of community of people who are doing exactly what you’re doing. You’re given restrictions but each person creates something entirely unique and beautiful. It is a moving experience. I also love the challenge that fixed form poetry imposes on the mind.

The worst is when you have a form that really grinds against your inspiration and that feels limiting. For me, the alliterisen is downright horrendous. I hate it with a passion. So while I will do it as part of a challenge, it never really feels rewarding for me, because it’s not something I enjoy creating. 

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Some questions for our readers!

• Did any of the answers catch you off guard?
• Did any of the answers particularly connect with you?
• Are there any questions that you would have answered differently?

A big, big THANK YOU to all who participated in this interview, your contribution was amazing. If you reader have any questions, tag the deviant you want to ask them to! They knew they were signing up for it. Totally.